I’ve never thought of myself as a good book reviewer. I’m definitely not a good critiquer—my technique is really just an overwhelming desire to rewrite a problem area in someone’s manuscript. I can tell when something isn’t working…I have a hard time pinpointing why it’s not working. I just want to fix it. (No, I’m not in any crit groups now.) :)
My son was working on a literary criticism project for his English class. He’s a competent writer, although he’s usually not enthusiastic about doing it.
This time, he handed me his paper. “Take a look at this!” he said, smiling.
He’d written a good thesis. He’d come up with several pages to support it…except there were two paragraphs that didn’t tie into his thesis at all. The paragraphs were on how the author’s word choice created a certain mood.
Well….the author’s word choice did create a somber mood. He was right about that. But he hadn’t tied the examples into his thesis at all.
I was about to say, “Hey, it looks great. But you might want to look at these paragraphs here and see if you can find a problem…” But then I stopped.
He was excited about writing. He hadn’t finished his essay yet. Right now he was enthusiastic and productive. Why mess with momentum?
So I brought it up after he was finished writing the paper. He was glad I’d pointed out that he should make sure that everything tied into his thesis, but he’d rather have fixed the problem as he’d gone along—and he’d continued making the same error a couple more times after he’d finished writing the essay.
Pros to biting your tongue–
The writer might continue writing with confidence and enthusiasm.
Editing can happen just as well in the second draft.
Pros to pointing out a potential problem with a manuscript–
The writer has an opportunity to decide if it is a problem…and correct it before they go on any farther.
Does the critique you give depend on the writer looking for advice? And how do you feel about constructive criticism…would you rather have it during your first draft, or after?
I love ans appreciate feedback, even the disparaging kind. My aim is to grow, and sometimes that can be painful.
It definitely depends for me–on where they’re at in their writing, their experience and their goal for the project. For instance, I have a friend who is working on her first story and she isn’t planning to do anything with it right now so when she asks for feedback, I keep it positive so she stays encouraged to write. There’s no point in making her worry about grammar and punctuation when at this point, it really doesn’t matter.
Elizabeth – Critique can really be a tricky thing. As a writer, I like critique as I write. That way, I can fix a problem as soon as I hear about it. Otherwise, it can affect everything else in what I’m writing. I like to critique that way, too; however, I do keep my mouth shut unless someone asks me for critique early on.
When I critique my students’ work, I start with what is working about their papers, and generally try to couch criticism as “And this is how you might make that argument/character/whatever else is working well even stronger.” I love enthusiastic writing, too, and I would rather tell a student how to harness writing tools to make work stronger than squash his or her interest.
Before giving critiques, I like to make sure the writer is actually looking for feedback. And I also look for signs the writer will be receptive to any negative feedback. Otherwise, I just smile and say, “Nice.”
As for getting feedback, I like to wait until my first draft is complete. Then I’ll at least have most stuff in order and the names of my characters won’t have changed halfway through.
I’d much rather have the critique early on in the process, but I received great critiques after many drafts as well. Depending on the feedback, the earlier I get it, the easier it is to work it in.
Karen
I want problems pointed out ASAP, so I can fix them and not compound them. Fixing one thing is easier than fixing 10, especially when it means there might be all sorts of ‘collateral’ damage from not fixing.
But that’s me, and I’ve been doing this for a while. I know all the encouragement I got when I was starting kept me going.
Terry
Terry’s Place
Romance with a Twist–of Mystery
I think a critique at any stage in the manuscript is great! It can save a lot of headaches early on if you have a critique done on your first draft.
I have received multiple critiques on various WIPs, and I usually ask for them on my third draft, so it would be “after” I’m done.
But, if someone asks me for a critique, my first question is “what do you want from me?”
That leaves it up to them what kind of comments I give and I won’t go gungho iguana where it isn’t wanted.
That is why I SO hate critiquing other’s work! I’d rather know early something wasn’t working, but most people don’t seem to appreciate early advice.
This is so tricky! It’s been my experience that whenever someone says “What do you really think?” the last thing they want to hear is something uncomplimentary. The few times I’ve critiqued other people’s work, I’ve tried to do my best Mary Poppins and remember “A Spoonful of Sugar Helps the Medicine Go Down”. I also remind them that it’s only one opinion.
I always take into consideration the writer, what they are looking for and what draft they are in. If it’s a polished version, I try to stick to fixable things – not rewrite suggestions. Unless they are puzzlingn over a plot hole. It’s tough to know what to say or not say.
Be gentle, and try to stimulate enthusiasm for writing. I think that’s most important with young people. They will learn to take critique when they grow older (most people do, but not all)
Cold As Heaven
If asked to critique, I try to find out exactly what the author wants. Like you, I know what doesn’t work for me, but I don’t always know why.
I don’t care when I receive constructive criticism as long as it is before the book is published.
I want to be teachable and I look to see if a person is before I offer critique.
I think maybe your son THINKS he would have wanted to know as he went, but that in reality it might have dampened his momentum. It is easy to think one thing, but I don’t know that we are accurate all the time.
I’ve had a couple experiences with my daughter where I try to help and she gets mad and won’t show me again (this is just her personality)
As for your critiquing… I think it is perfectly game to highlight and say ‘I can’t tell why, but this isn’t working for me’. One of my critiquers is fabulous at this–pointing out sentences or paragraphs and saying it is unclear–she happens to be a high school teacher, so I think maybe her approach is a taught one. I by far prefer those to somebody else trying to fix my words, because THEN the words aren’t mine.
I look for and solicit constructive feedback “as is.” In the beginning, middle, or later stages, its all good. I’m a straight shooter and am not afraid to tell someone I didn’t like their book.
I love detailed feedback during first drafts, and also during revisions. My critique groups are great at finding everything, with each member focusing on something different.
I was in a crit group with a newbie who made every mistake in the book. The comments made were not harsh, but she wasn’t ready for them. Now when I am going to critique, I find out whether the person is the cheerleading stage (where they just need positive support) or the serious stage (where they need comments to help them improve).
I think we’re sensitive to suggestions at any point, so I’d have to say lay it on me early.
Mallory–I think that sometimes, just keeping someone writing is the best thing to do. Especially if they’re still trying to figure out voice and other parts of the craft.
Jessica–Good point!
Tamika–Exactly. If we’re serious, we have to really try to find constructive criticism that helps us grow.
Robynn–Ha! Gungho iguana. I like it! Yes, good to know where everyone is coming from.
Diane–I think with some people it just messes with the creative process, maybe.
Margot–I like your approach! You’re making suggestions to help them make their writing stronger. That’s exactly what I want to be able to do and have them encouraged but have them learn at the same time.
Laura–And if they tell us to be honest, is that what they really mean? Yes, it’s really tough to know.
Cold As Heaven–That’s the way I feel about children writing. I really want to foster the love for writing in kids. There are just so many other things they COULD do, instead of write.
Alan–Ha! I’ll have to remember that. “Nice!” :) Many writers might just be looking for exactly that.
Karen–That’s true….could save time in the end.
Jane–That’s me. When I send something to my mom to read, I expect total honesty…because my agent sure as heck is going to be honest, and I’d rather not submit something really flawed to her. And my editor is REALLY going to be honest, so the book I send her way needs to be as good as I can get it.
Terry–That’s a good point. Maybe, then, it depends on *what* the problem is. Is it a plot hole that’s going to become a sink hole and destroy the story? We should maybe tell the writer about that. Is it just that the character’s motivation is weak? I guess that’s something that we could sit on until the end.
Hart–That’s exactly what I thought. I thought he might be frustrated because he’d shown me something that he was proud of, and I only saw the problems with it. So I bit my tongue. He fixed it nicely, but he *was* irritated by the extra work. Ah well. It was a learning moment for him. :)
That’s what’s so hard for me because I know I can’t just try to fix people’s query letters or cover letters or manuscripts. But I know they’re looking for more detail from me. The thing is that I’m not an analytical person…I’m more of a big-picture person. And the feedback I give seems very vague. Many times I’ll just say “what about if your sentence read *this* way”….then I give them the sentence reworked. I’m good with syntax..but not good to say what the problem in the sentence was. I think I drove my crit group crazy when I belonged to one.
Stephen–You’re the person I should have talked to all those years ago when I needed honest feedback!
Elspeth–I’ve found that it’s really rare to find people who *really* want the dirt on the problems with their labor of love! The only time I’m usually pretty honest is when it’s a draft that someone has that’s already under contract that they ask me to look at.
Alex–That’s true…it can sting at any time.
Kristen–Good point…so many people really just want some encouragement and interaction with other writers.
Patricia–I remember that you’ve got an amazing critique group! You’re really fortunate, I think.
Tara–That’s a very good observation, Tara. I remember that the last time I was in a critique group, it was about seven years ago. I was *not* in the cheerleading stage and was really wanting constructive criticism…but the other members were worried about hurting my feelings. I *wanted* my feelings hurt! You’re so right about finding out where each person is in the process.
Too many critiques too early in the writing process can derail a manuscript entirely, though. I used to want critiques as I wrote, but I’m leaning toward whole-MS critiques at this point. It’s too easy to get hung up on partial manuscript microedits, when a fill MS is needed before the real editing work is begun.
Others’ mileage may vary, of course. :)
I am in a critique group, which is a very healthy group. But, giving feedback is an art, and I still struggle to find the balance between too much and not enough.
I agree with Simon that sometimes too much critique in the beginning of a larger work will kill a story. I walked away from one of my manuscripts after a different writing group shot it to pieces, when it was still in the early draft stages. I could see why I needed to make those changes, but the critique left me feeling hopeless that I could make them successfully.
I like big picture feedback as I’m working, sort of a does-this-story still-make sense kind of thing. I’ve received some great timely advice that inspired what to have happen in the next section from questions brought up in the previous part, mainly about things I didn’t know that I didn’t know.