My son told me on Monday that he might “ask out” his friend Mimi.
Once I picked up my jaw from the floor (and tried to banish the mental image of me chauffeuring my son and Mimi around town in my minivan) I said, “Honey, you’re just too young to go out on dates!”
Uh-oh. I’d become infected with the condition I call “Instant Ancient” again.
“Mom! ‘Asking out’ is just what we call dating someone. We just wear each other’s sweatshirts and stuff.”
“Oh. We called that ‘going with’ when I was in junior high. You know…like ‘John is going with Amy’.”
Instant Ancient again. I wasn’t even going to ask him how he planned on surviving a middle school day while wearing Mimi’s pink Abercombie sweatshirt.
I try to carefully steer clear of words and phrases that put me in the older-than-dirt category, as far as my son is concerned.
Caution with dating ourselves is important for writers, too. And I thought of other things we should probably be careful with.
Being Careful with Slang:
I’m thinking about words/phrases like ‘swell,’ ‘groovy,’ ‘totally awesome,’ and probably ‘radical.’ If we’re not writing books that are based in older time periods, we shouldn’t use the words above. And, if we’re writing books set in the present, we need to tread carefully. What’s slang now may be dated when a reader picks up our library book in five years.
Those of you who write YA? I don’t know how you do it. You’re obviously a heck of a lot cooler than I am. :)
Being Careful with Profanity:
Here I think we should know our reader and know our market. Each genre has pretty set boundaries for what’s appropriate in regards to expletives. In cozy mysteries (my genre)? You’re just not going to see much of it.
Being Careful with Dialect:
I love getting a real sense of a setting that’s foreign to me—and I prefer it in dialogue instead of in description. But there’s a point where it gets to be too much. M.C. Beaton does it well in her Scottish-set books, but every once in a while the brogue will make me frown and try to translate the passage.
I think it’s best to go light on dialect and instead try using phrases, idioms, and word choices that locals of an area would use. For me, I’d rather stick with the rhythm of Southern speech than take a stab at phonetic spelling (which would be really tiresome for a reader.)
Are there other areas you’re careful about when you’re writing?
It’s not called “going with” anymore!? I’m so ancient.
Another thing that dates is technology. Nowadays, it’s Xbox, PS3, iPhones etc (in my youth it was Atari, and cell phones were considered sci-fi from Star Trek. At least Star Trek is back!). I also notice mentions of Twitter and MySpace in contemporary stories, but that stuff will probably be passe in a few years. Celebrities too come and go. YA writers must be very cool–or do tons of research. I wonder how you go about seriously interviewing a twelve year old?
Elizabeth – You’ve highlighted some really important things to be careful of when writing. Being dated is definitely one of them. So is being careful with slang, profanity and dialect. Since I’m a linguist, this topic is really interesting to me. I’d say it’s also important to be careful about using jargon and acronyms. Professions like medicine, law, education and the military have particular jargon that they use, and lots of those on the “outside’ may not understand those references. I think it’s important to use “accessible” language without “dumbing it down.”
Well, I feel older than dirt. I have to be very aware of language while I’m trying to finish my WIP; speech was far more formal in the period I’m writing. I’m trying to stay away from profanity; not because it wasn’t used but because (honestly) I find it lazy writing.
Elspeth
You’re so right about dating ourselves! Slang language changes quickly – especially teen language – and tech words.
Oh, the pains of young love! :)
Good tips, Elizabeth. Good advice from commenters too. It’s worth another looksie to fine tune the manuscript. (I too, avoid technology references.) As for swearing, I keep it very minimal and use it only as a last resort because that’s the way I like to read it. Thanks for sharing!
Since I write about cops and covert ops field agents, I’m always trying to keep up with the technology. (Which is where my computer programmer crit partner is so helpful!). By the time a book hits the shelves, it can be dated. I avoid references to any current movie star/music names if possible, because 1) they may no longer be hot when the book is out, and 2) the reader might be someone like me who is clueless as to who these people are; and 3) my first mentor chastised me for using a ‘ready made’ description instead of one of my own when I referenced a movie.
For language, etc., I rely on my kids, who are about the same age as my characters.
When I was growing up here in Saskatchewan it was “Penny is going out with Don”. My teenager says “dating”, which is bizarre, especially since he’s been “dating” his girlfriend for a year now! I see now that my slang is almost as old sounding as the old folks’ “stepping out with”.
It’s a challenge for me to remember, in my writing, to not use the same dialogue quirk for a certain character more than a couple of times. To paraphrase what one early reader told me,”We get it; you don’t have to hammer us over the head with it.” Thanks, Elizabeth!
I try to think about dated slang the same way I think about the clothes in my closet. They may old-fashioned and ancient, but sooner or later they’ll be back in fashion.
And I’ll be ready.
This post made me feel ancient. I’m careful about profanity and slang. Oh, and it’s a good thing I don’t write romance, because I’d never be able to write sex scene.
Karen
These are good pointers for life, too! I’ve made all of these mistakes in conversations with my sons and their friends.
So true! Very important not to date your books, but it is difficult when you write YA! I think to some extent, with YA, you have to accept that it will just happen. You want young characters to feel genuine, and you want your young readers to relate to them. That said, I find it’s actually kind of cool to make up words that have no real place in time. It makes my characters feel original. I hope the reader will just assume you’re up on slang that isn’t yet familiar to them.
Good points. A writer needs to be careful if using an actual area, too – what is considered the ‘happening’ part of town at one point can change over time to the not-so-good area to be in and vice versa.
I might try to write for children, but I would never in my life try to write YA. I have just never been young in that way. My daughters also moved directly from children´s books to adult fiction.
When I write stories and flash fiction in English, I always think of the fact that it is my second language, but as my readers keep telling me my language is okay, I suppose it is not terribly dated – or perhaps my readers are just as dated as I am ;)
Good points! In my Kitty MacDonald series I’m writing about a time around ten years ago. I think in some ways it would be easier to write about a time a hundred years ago. Technology has changed so much in ten years and I’m constantly thinking “would they have this or that – was this invented yet or more importantly – in use?” I have some dialect in my stories – I have a Quebecois cop and I need to make that clear without overloading him with stereotypical phrases. For instance he never says “Mon Dieu!” far too Pepi Laphew but sometimes he says “La rondelle ne roule pas pour lui” which translates to “the puck isn’t going his way”. I must keep remembering my characters have their own linguistic tics as well. I, for instance, am known in my group as a person who uses weird outdated expressions from the thirties – “ain’t you the bee’s knees!” All fun – playing with words is our business, non?
I’m pretty careful with all of them more for fear of sounding ancient! Profanity is definitely a no-no for me.
Lorel–Great, great point about technology. Quick way to date a book.
YA writers are the cool kids, I think. That’s what scares me about writing YA…I’ve never been cool!
Margot–Jargon and acronyms…good point! That’s so frustrating when we’re reading and don’t know what they’re talking about.
Elspeth–Oh, join the Older than Dirt club with me!
I’m with you on the profanity. Sometimes it works and sometimes it’s just lazy.
Jane–That’s a real danger, isn’t it? I’ve got to keep that in mind with my Memphis series.
Jemi–The teen language really worries me. Consequently, I only write one teenager in my books.
Jan–I think ‘the bee’s knees’ is cute! And I like how you’re keeping your Quebecois cop current and fresh.
Stacy–Technology really is an area to steer clear of, isn’t it? And I don’t like reading a lot of profanity, either.
Terry–Good points. I’m reading a book now where a teenager in the book has a picture of a now-old movie star on her wall. Really dated the book for me.
Even Faulkner’s phonetic dialogue is hard to read at times. Brilliant, but hard to read.
We lesser lights must make do with taking your advice here, using just a smattering of local color to make our dialectical case.
(Plus, I’m not looking forward to the “instant ancient” in ten years or so when my kids get to that point…)
Elizabeth…I know your jaw DID drop! LOL! Love the pink Abercrombie line!
I really hate foul language in books. It is lazy writing that usually takes away rather than adds to the book. However because I read SO many different genres, I come across a lot of it. I just try to ignore it and read on. It won’t keep me from reading an authors work but I wish it would become less of a “additive” in the reading world.
You are one helpful and groovy writer chick, Elizabeth. (Okay, one of my characters actually wrote that.) I’ve got a WIP featuring a character who intentionally uses passe slang to get a rise out of the “cool” people around him. One of the good things about having a multigenerational Twitter following is you get exposed to slang from all ages. Party on!
I agree with all of these “careful” aspects of writing. Another one to watch out for is dating your story with specific technologies. Unless you are writing a period piece, of course, or a futuristic sci-fi where you are dreaming up new technologies.
Marvin D Wilson
Oh this is so true, and I’ve been caught using dated words too. Another area is fashion. In a revision of a manuscript, I noticed a style my character wore that was no longer “in vogue.” Wait, I think I’m dating myself with that term ;) Fun post!
You do have to be careful if you’re trying to capture the speech pattern and sounds of a group. If you go overboard with dropping letters or substituting letters to get a Southern drawl or a New York accent or a gangster rap, you can easily lose the reader and pull them out of the story as they try to decipher what’s being said.
Helen
Straight From Hel
Simon–Faulkner did it well, but it did get old. Southern accents are just so thick that if you’re going with phonetic spellings you have to go all out. And that gets boring, fast.
Bobbi–Good point! And appearance tags, too. I tend to overuse those also. A first reader will point it out and tell me they got the point.
Carol–It’s distracting for me. I expect it in thrillers, but when it’s any other genre I don’t have much patience for it.
Marvin–And then what if our made-up technology ends up being real? We should get a patent, just in case. :)
Alan–Ha! You and I will look totally awesome when we finally pull out our paint-splattered tees and neon parachute pants, and get perms!
Joanne–Good point! We’ve got to avoid describing trendy clothes which are probably on their way out by the time the book gets on the shelf.
Karen–I’m with you! No sex scenes in my books. They’ll just close the door behind them.
Helen–You’re so right. And we’re trying to pull readers INto our stories, not pulling them out of them.
That is one thing I like about writing fantasy – it takes longer for the writing to date itself. There are definite signs as to when fantasy was written but at least it isn’t the slang.
I’ve tried writing set in the real world a few times and always get caught up with trying to avoid references that might date the work, and then of course the setting feels so generic there really isn’t a point.
This is an excellent post. Thanks for sharing this.
I found you blog from The Write Worship. I’m glad I did! I have one character who is rather quirky so I have to be careful about what she says sometimes. If she’s a bit strange it’s alright but if she turns too serious I have to go back and change her.
My editor recently finished a review of my WIP and commented that the dialect of two characters, “took me out of the story.” Yikes. That’s gotta be fixed. So, I cleaned up the dialect I had slaved so hard over. This last go round, it passed as within tolerance. So, your point on dialogue is well taken.
Best Regards, Galen
Imagineering Fiction Blog
That very thing happened to me when my daughter was in middle school. She wasn’t allowed to go out on a date in MS so when she used that phrase on me I was instantly thinking of grounding methods I could use. She told me to calm down….
Re: slang – it’s kind of fun to read slang from the different eras. It’s almost a cultural change. But one would need to be mindful I think of vocabulary and how it will be perceive now and in the future.
Cassandra–Me too! :)
Carolina–Maybe that’s the way to approach it–make UP slang! I think that’s what happened in the movie “Clueless” (based on Austen’s “Emma.”)
Bethany–It’s hard to keep that balance, isn’t it? Thanks so much for coming by my blog today!
Dorte–I think your English sounds very natural and with-it. But then…I’ve just admitted that I’m older than dirt. :)
Galen–Oh, what a pain! So you have to revise all your dialogue? Bleh.
I can relate to being “Instant Ancient”. It happens to most moms when their kids reach a certain age. :-)
You made great points about being careful of how we write dialect. Using the rhythm of speech and a few idioms is so much better than fracturing words to try to capture a dialect. It used to be acceptable, like in Faulkner’s time, but not anymore. Don’t make it hard for the reader to understand what your character is saying as that will pull him right out of the story.
These are great ones! I think you got them all. Another thing is talking about fads or trends. In my stories I mention some current events, but they are more to give a sense of time than to date it. I try to be careful about it.
Don’t forget to add “talking” to the mix!
Dude! Welcome dating child-dom!
I vividly remember that exact conversation. Though the clothes sharing thing… I suspect only he is sharing. My daughter has brought home a sweatshirt or two, but thus far no claims of her clothes at boys houses…
I seem to ALWAYS strap myself with a teen main character (even though I don’t write YA). I TRY to use the ‘attitude’ (lots of sarcasm) without a ton of VOCABULARY. I do happen to have a stereotypical rocker type friend, but he is SUPPOSED to be campy.
My trilogy is occurring in the 80s (I needed the ‘wall’ still standing for plot reasons) so that is easier. I can refer to specifics there, as it was my own teen years.
My 4yo asked me about Wii tonight!
But back to writing, you are right. Some writers get it right, others don’t. That’s why early readers are so important, BEFORE we publish! I think dialogue in general is scary.
I’m just 29 and I could never do YA! I’m old beyond my years, and so disapproving!
Michele
SouthernCityMysteries
The other day I wanted to contribute a story for a writing group, but wasn’t up to starting from scratch. I found an old story that, I had written so years back that I could modify to go with the subject matter of theI group. It was a lot of fun updating, such as when I wrote the story, car phones were just becoming popular. So I had to reword it so I could incorporate the now use of cell phones!
Tamika–It’s usually better to be safe than sorry, I think.
Glen–I wish I *were* groovy! It would maybe help me out a little.
You’re right about picking up on slang online…I’ve made a couple of notes here and there.
Hart–I wasn’t ready for it yet! :)
If Mimi wears my son’s sweatshirt, I hope she isn’t a messy eater…
That’s a great idea–keeping the attitude while losing the slang.
Cassandra–That IS a nice thing about fantasy. I think it would be easy to go in the opposite direction too much in your attempt to keep from dating your setting.
Teresa–I’m thinking I’m wayyy behind the times. :)
That slang is really tricky. You’re right…what sounds cool now can quickly turn into something dated and funny.
Maryann–That’s the thing, isn’t it? If it’s a chore, it’s not fun. If it’s not fun, why would the reader want to do it?
Kristen–Good points! Current events are tricky, aren’t they? I made reference to “tough economic times” in my Memphis book before getting rid of it. I figured that would date it, too.
Michele–Oh, you pegged it. I feel like I’d be all Bossy Mama if I wrote YA, which would *not* be cool and would *not* get me published. :)
If you’d read Kathryn Stocket’s “The Help” then you know she hit the nail on the head in a big way in the dialogue of black women in the south in days gone by. What a feat. I am in awe of her writing skills.
Elizabeth–I’ve got “The Help” on my end table (to read as soon as I finish Louise Penny’s “The Brutal Telling.” Can’t wait!
Judy–Car phones! Too funny. I had one of those… Well, at least that was an easy update for your writing group.
After reading your post, I realised I should value the few years I have left where I can correct my son for saying “he said me”, and not have him correct me for whatever!
If I write for a middle class Indian audience, I would be most careful of the clothes the women wear. From the time I started going to college to now, I have seen four distinct levels of dressing evolve and in less than two decades, we have gone from a nation wearing sarees to one wearing only western clothes.